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Katie: Hey, and welcome to the Wellness Mama Podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And this episode is with one of my good associates on a subject that I feel is more and more essential, particularly for ladies, and that’s salt consumption. As a result of we haven’t gotten the right story. And limiting sodium, particularly in sure situations, can really be somewhat bit dangerous. So, I’m right here with Robb Wolf, who’s a former analysis biochemist. He’s a well being skilled and writer of the New York Instances Greatest Sellers “The Paleo Answer” and “Wired to Eat”. He’s been the evaluation editor for the “Journal of Diet and Metabolism” and the “Journal of Evolutionary Well being”. He serves on the Board of Administrators of Specialty Well being Medical Clinic in Reno, Nevada and as a advisor within the Naval Particular Warfare Resilience Program. He’s a former California State Powerlifting Champion and is a purple belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. He’s extraordinarily lively and has been researching areas like low carbon keto weight-reduction plan and sodium consumption for a extremely very long time. And he goes actually deep on the science of this, and the sensible purposes of why ladies, particularly doubtlessly pregnant and breastfeeding ladies, would possibly want much more sodium than we’re being advised that we want. Actually fascinating episode. I do know that you’ll take pleasure in it as a lot as I loved recording it. So with out additional ado, let’s be part of Robb. Robb, welcome. Thanks for being right here.

Robb: Hey, large honor to be right here. At all times glad to deliver down property values.

Katie: Oh, effectively, you might be a lot enjoyable to speak to. And you might be an skilled in a subject that I’ve been studying fairly a bit about lately, which is all issues associated to salt and sodium consumption. So I really feel like to begin broad, lots of persons are conscious that salt has gotten sort of a nasty status. And persons are usually advised to restrict or keep away from sodium, particularly added sodium. So I need to begin with that idea that lots of folks appear to suppose we needs to be limiting sodium. Is that what we’re really seeing within the information proper now?

Robb: Properly, it’s actually fascinating as a result of once we have a look at the issues that people face like most cancers is an enormous deal, autoimmunity is an enormous deal, however arguably the largest downside that people face is heart problems. And once we begin, , unpacking that downside, ldl cholesterol performs a extremely central function in at the very least that dialogue, to what diploma it performs a think about it’s tremendous contentious. However one factor that’s rather well established is that people with hypertension, with hypertension, they positively are at elevated danger for heart problems, both a stroke or a coronary heart assault. And this elevated blood stress is arguably a function of what’s inflicting harm to the vascular endothelium.

And what’s fascinating is a driver of elevated blood stress is sodium. However what’s sort of difficult to unpack in that story is over the past 30, 40 years when of us have been placed on low sodium diets and we have now nice randomized management trials on this, like very rigorous science, they may take of us and put them on a particularly low sodium weight loss plan and it doesn’t actually change their blood stress a lot. In some folks it does. There are these of us which might be sodium delicate, hypertensive. And in these folks we are able to see an honest sort of up or downtick of their blood stress primarily based off of what their relative sodium consumption is. However that is lower than 1% of the inhabitants.

So it’s fascinating, we all know mechanistically, that sodium is essential in blood stress, we all know that blood stress is essential for heart problems. However what acquired missed in that story is that the explanation why the physique hangs on to this sodium within the first place is we’re simply typically over-eating and possibly over-eating too many carbs. And when our insulin ranges elevate, once we turn into insulin resistant, then we have a tendency to retain sodium. Insulin causes an upregulation within the manufacturing of a hormone known as aldosterone. Aldosterone causes the kidneys to retain sodium. And so it’s fascinating as a result of there’s a purpose to be involved about sodium and blood stress, but it surely’s not likely the best way that we’ve been taking a look at issues.

And that is additionally the flip aspect when folks go on a decrease carb weight loss plan, whether or not it’s paleo or keto, or what have you ever. One of the first options that we see with that’s that individuals have a tendency to lose lots of weight in a short time. And that is water weight. And that is the physique shifting from actually strongly retaining sodium to releasing lots of sodium. And that’s good from the angle of bettering our cardiovascular danger profile and simply typically feeling higher. But when that goes too far, if anyone is on a low carb ketogenic weight loss plan and significantly in the event that they’re lively, what we then want to do is complement sodium to get them again up to a standard baseline.

And so simply in actually broad brushstrokes, I feel that that’s an enormous half of the possibly mischaracterization of sodium. After which the opposite piece is that if we have a look at consuming primarily entire unprocessed meals, there’s not lots of sodium there apart from what we would add to it. However the place that we do get lots of sodium is from processed meals. And in any method that you just reduce it extremely processed meals are clearly not good for people. And so I feel that to some extent, there’s been each a misunderstanding of the mechanisms of the place sodium is problematic, which is principally elevated insulin ranges, however then additionally guilt by affiliation as a result of sodium tends to go together with processed meals. However that doesn’t essentially imply that including sodium to an in any other case nutritious diet goes to be equally problematic.

Katie: So what are we really seeing within the analysis primarily based on what you’ve learn of how a lot sodium can we really want? And I’d guess that might fluctuate primarily based on lots of components like how lively somebody is, as an illustration, or such as you stated, how a lot processed meals they’re consuming or what number of carbs they’re consuming, however are there any normal guidelines of what the info says we really do want?

Robb: Yeah, yeah, that’s a extremely good query. And there was a paper that was printed three years in the past, I need to say, two, three years in the past the place they checked out sodium consumption and all-cause mortality in kind 2 diabetic coronary heart sufferers. So these had been the parents that you’d make the case that if a low sodium consumption was going to profit these of us and anybody, it needs to be these folks. However what was fascinating is what emerged out of this analysis is what’s known as a U-curve. And if on the X axis, the underside axis, we have now quantity of sodium consumed, after which on the Y axis, the up and down axis, morbidity and mortality, what we discovered on this examine was that the parents that had been consuming 2 or fewer grams of sodium per day had very excessive morbidity, mortality and that is at or beneath the degrees that the majority medical professionals suggest. They often suggest the decrease the sodium, the higher.

However what was fascinating is, as of us on this sick inhabitants elevated sodium consumption out to about 5 grams, that was the bottom of all-cause mortality. So 2 grams was fairly harmful, 5 grams was far much less harmful. After which it was fascinating, you had to get all the best way out to nearly 8 to 10 grams of sodium to have the identical morbidity and mortality charges as of us consuming 2 grams of sodium. So what you are taking from that’s that low sodium consumption is way extra harmful than excessive sodium consumption basically. And in order that 5 grams per day is a reasonably defensible place to simply begin the dialog round, , that is in all probability a secure stage to eat, and it’s value noting, there are some excessive sodium cultures around the globe like Japan and another locations that their common consumption is round 10 to 11 grams a day. So it’s considerably increased even than what we’re consuming and so they have a tendency to have fewer well being issues.

However that’s possibly a method to take into consideration bracketing the low finish, , someplace round possibly 4 to 5 grams a day. And once more, to your level, relying on exercise stage and the dimensions of the individual and stuff like that, that’s going to dramatically affect the quantity of not simply sodium however potassium and magnesium and the opposite electrolytes that we’re involved with. However it’s fascinating if we sort of give attention to sodium, lots of these different issues have a tendency to fall into place. However then once we look over at sports activities medication, the American Council of Sports activities Drugs, ACSM, they’ve some pointers that relying on the temperature, the humidity, the exercise stage of a person, their advice begin at 7 to 10 grams of sodium per day for people which might be in heat environments, humid environments, or are extremely lively.

And simply sort of anecdotally throughout the keto scene, Ketogains, of us that I’ve labored with, we’ve seen excessive motor athletes which might be low carb rise up as excessive as 12 to 15 grams of sodium on some very lively days. However these are of us which might be, say, like doing three hours of Brazilian jujitsu and their facility shouldn’t be air conditioned, and it’s 90 levels and 80% humidity and stuff like that. However it’s fascinating. We haven’t actually seen profit a lot above that 12 to 15 gram per day stage, even in extraordinarily lively massive people. After which we do see, , a very good case to be made that someplace round that 4 to 5 grams per day consumption ranges needs to be in keeping with good well being.

Katie: And what are some issues that we are able to look out for? Are there signs related to not consuming sufficient or with consuming an excessive amount of? Or how can we gauge individually how a lot we in all probability want?

Robb: Yeah, yeah, it’s a extremely good query. And it’s fascinating as a result of blood work doesn’t assist us a lot on this case as a result of the kidneys do a remarkably good job of coping with totally different electrolyte ranges. And so, of us oftentimes ask if there’s blood work that may be carried out and if anyone is overtly poor in like sodium or magnesium or potassium. That may present up but it surely’s tough to pin that stuff down from a lab perspective. So we have now to go along with rather more subjective components: how do you’re feeling, cognition. Some of the widespread issues that individuals report once they eat decrease carb or simply basically in the event that they’re missing in sodium, one of the most typical issues is of us will go from sitting to standing, and upon standing, they may get lightheaded, and that’s a extremely good indicator that the person wants extra sodium.

In the event that they’re feeling lightheaded or sort of dizzy whereas exercising, that’s oftentimes a reasonably good indicator that they want extra sodium. Psychological fatigue, lethargy, these are fairly widespread indicators of needing extra sodium and electrolytes basically. However then the when have you ever gone too far query? Often we see somewhat bit of gastric upset like presumably some catastrophe pants kind stuff, but when of us have to get actually aggressive on the supplementation for that to occur, in the event that they sort of sip on their bone broth or their electrolyte beverage or what have you ever, or in the event that they’re simply sort of salting meals, that’s normally not an issue.

Katie: Gotcha. Okay. So that you’ve talked about different electrolytes, particularly magnesium and potassium. And I do know some persons are additionally involved with getting sufficient calcium. Are there any normal guidelines of what kind of ratio we want these in or how to know once we want different electrolytes as effectively?

Robb: Yeah, it’s a extremely good query, and the best way that we deal with this, we checked out effectively formulated entire meals diets, and seemed on the quantities of calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium that these largely entire unprocessed meals diets supplied. And what we discovered is that they adequately tick the field sometimes on calcium. They ended up being fairly good however not fairly enough on magnesium and potassium after which they had been fairly poor in sodium. And once more, these numbers sort of fluctuate from individual to individual. We ought to all through the course of a day typically eat extra potassium than sodium. Nearly all meals until they’re like fermented and having sodium added to them will sometimes be a lot increased in potassium than sodium.

So, once more, if we primarily follow nuts, seeds, fruits, greens, meat, shellfish, that kind of stuff, the ratios sort of play out fairly naturally, the quantities and ratios, however the one factor that we have a tendency to be somewhat bit poor in and that can vary from individual to individual tends to be the sodium.

Katie: Gotcha. Okay, that is sensible. And principally simply to recap, so if all of us have a baseline want for a certain quantity of sodium, however that may positively enhance with issues like train, being low carb, I’d guess sauna use, what about are there any hormonal issues there? Like, as an illustration, do ladies want extra sodium at totally different factors throughout their cycle or throughout, as an illustration, being pregnant or breastfeeding?

Robb: You understand, curiously, I don’t know for positive in regards to the specifics round being pregnant, however we even have a examine that’s underway at Vanderbilt taking a look at sodium supplementation utilizing LMNT and breast milk manufacturing. Simply anecdotally, we had a simply wildfire of of us tagging us on social media. And it was inside these sort of breastfeeding mother boards and gals would publish like, “This was yesterday’s pump, and it was like a bottle with only a scant quantity in it. After which the following day it was three or 4 full bottles.” And this was hanging sufficient that it acquired the eye of the Dean of the College of epidemiology at Vanderbilt, she’s an MD PhD, acquired her consideration sufficient that she was desirous about doing a ladies’s well being examine round this.

And so that is underway proper now. And so it’s tough to say precisely what these ranges are exterior of simply overlaying what our primary wants are, which might be someplace between 5 and 10 grams per day. However it mechanistically it makes lots of sense that it might assist breast milk manufacturing as a result of it’s going to enhance fluid quantity supplementing with sodium. It’ll encourage you to drink extra fluids basically. And curiously, once we have a look at some of the useful medication treatments for, say, adrenal fatigue, HPTA axis dysregulation, elevated sodium consumption could be very useful as a result of it does downregulate aldosterone. And when aldosterone is produced, it tends to launch each epinephrine which is adrenaline and in addition cortisol. And epinephrine and cortisol are antagonistic in the direction of the manufacturing of breast milk.

So, , once more, I feel that one might make the case that simply typically sticking throughout the bounds of what we’d think about regular consumption, which is someplace round that, like 5 to 10 gram per day stage might be optimum, however you could possibly positively make a case that basically a extremely low sodium weight loss plan throughout being pregnant might be not a good suggestion. I assume one downside space could be gestational diabetes and a few of the sort of hypertensive state that may happen with that. However you could possibly additionally actually make the case that that is once more in all probability an insulin-driven phenomenon. I don’t know should you’ve had Lily Nichols on the present, however she’s the genius with these items. She’s actually phenomenal in serving to to take care of that gestational diabetes and the preeclampsia and issues like that.

Katie: I’ve not had her on, however I’ll have to add her to the record.

Robb: Oh, she’s superb. She is superb.

Katie: That’s actually fascinating to know. I’d love to perceive somewhat bit extra. You talked about the HPA axis dysfunction. Are you able to clarify for anybody not acquainted what that’s and why sodium could possibly be a treatment there?

Robb: Yeah, so the HPTA axis…it’s sort of humorous inside mainstream medical circles, folks will scoff on the time period adrenal fatigue and that is one thing that has been in sort of various or useful medication circles for, I don’t know, 30 years, 40 years, even perhaps longer than that. And it’s this sort of complicated of signs. It’s burnout. You have got low vitality, have a tendency to be very drained and torpid within the morning, and have a tendency to get up extra simply in regards to the time that you just’re prepared to go to mattress. We now perceive that there’s some components of flipped circadian biology happening there. However the thought was that in that entire Hans Selye normal adaptation to stress response concept, was that if an organism is uncovered to continual stress above what they will adapt to, that the adrenals will finally sort of poop out and so they’ll be incapable of producing cortisol.

And over the course of time, what’s actually fascinating about that is the precise mechanism of the adrenals failing to produce cortisol shouldn’t be correct, however the symptomology of folks simply being sick is, and so one can find docs that can argue to their demise that adrenal fatigue is a non-thing. However then should you say, “Properly, what do you concentrate on hypothalamus pituitary adrenal axis dysregulation?” They may say, “Oh, yeah, effectively, that’s completely an issue.” And they’ll describe all of the symptomology being equivalent to what we normally…like various practitioners have known as adrenal fatigue. So it’s sort of an fascinating factor the place folks recognized the issue, they’d a proposed mechanism of the issue, which didn’t fully find yourself being correct, but it surely’s nonetheless a big downside that individuals face.

And the best way that sodium helps in that situation, is that it tends to blunt the sort of cortisol manufacturing that’s related to that sort of hyper vigilant and overstimulated, overstressed state. And it’s one of a mess of issues that people will suggest within the course of serving to to enhance that adrenal fatigue or HPTA axis dysregulation. However normally that burnout is attributable to lack of sleep, both exercising an excessive amount of, or actually continual stress, a traumatic occasion. So like PTSD and in addition traumatic mind harm has lots of overlap in its HPTA axis sort of enviornment. There’s a range of interventions from cognitive behavioral remedy to adaptogens like Schizandra and different treatments, but additionally sodium finally ends up taking part in a extremely essential function in simply sort of establishing that baseline for people.

Katie: That is sensible. For me, I observed an enormous distinction. I feel I’ve in all probability had lots of these signs a pair of years in the past for a burnout and I had to tackle sleep, and in addition morning daylight helped my ranges lots getting exterior within the morning. However vitamin C and sodium had been each huge components for me in over time regulating that. So I feel that’s actually, actually smart recommendation. And also you’ve talked about LMNT, however I do know we haven’t actually defined what that’s but and I’d love for you to discuss that. As a result of I do know you’ve got your individual story involving studying how a lot sodium your physique wanted. And also you realized this was a large enough downside that you just really developed a product to assist remedy it. So speak to us about LMNT.

Robb: Yeah, so , in concept, and I hate the time period skilled, however in concept, I’m pretty effectively versed in ketogenic diets. I’m a biochemist by coaching and all that stuff. And I’ve largely eaten this manner for about 22 years and customarily motored alongside actually, rather well, however I do some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and what I discovered tough was fueling the extra frisky jujitsu classes on a low carb weight loss plan, and I discovered that I would want to introduce somewhat bit extra carbs, however then once I titrated carbs up, I didn’t really feel pretty much as good cognitively. And I simply felt sort of caught on this cul de sac. After which I met Luis Villasenor and Tyler Cartwright. They’re the founders of the Ketogains program. It’s a web based ketogenic boot camp and I began sort of stalking these guys and their outcomes are simply superb.

They do an outstanding job with folks and so they’re actually fantastic coaches. And I managed to weasel my method into their lives and advised them what I used to be up to. And, , ask them, “Okay, taking a look at what I’m doing, right here’s my macros. Right here’s what I’m up to on my coaching. What else do I want to do to make issues work higher?” And so they simply instantly they stated, “You want extra sodium.” And I used to be like, “Oh, no, I salt my meals. I’m good.” And like folks will tend to do when your coach tells you to do one thing, you ignore it for a very good very long time. And so a few 12 months glided by and these guys patiently saved saying you simply want extra sodium, simply want extra sodium, after which I lastly listened to them.

And Luis made the purpose, he’s like, “Hey, why don’t you weigh and measure and put into Cronometer?” It’s this meals logging app. “All the pieces that you just eat, all the things that you just complement, and let’s see what your actual sodium consumption ranges are.” And my actual sodium consumption was beneath 2 grams a day. So regardless that I felt like I used to be salting my meals, like I simply I wasn’t doing remotely a ok job. And so initially, I used to be simply salting bone broth after which I used to be making some homebrews of lemon juice and magnesium citrate and lightweight salt and common salt. And it was only a miracle. Like, it modified my efficiency. It improved my sleep. I acquired leaner. And the one factor that I used to be doing was bettering my sodium consumption. And so this was a very good three years in the past, if not somewhat bit longer at this level.

And so these guys had already identified that sodium was tremendous essential and so they had been beating the drum on this for a very good very long time. And so I began actually championing this concept round electrolytes, particularly sodium and we really posted a make-it at house recipe, like use this a lot desk salt, this a lot no salt, this a lot, , like magnesium citrate or magnesium glycinate, or one thing like that. Combine all of it collectively, use some stevia and there you go. And this factor simply had a surprising quantity of downloads. Like folks liked it. It helped them. However then we began getting tagged on social media posts the place it was like, “Hey, Robb, Tyler, and Luis, I used to be going via TSA right now and so they didn’t like my three baggage of white powder, LOL.”

And so we began sort of placing our heads collectively and asking would it not make sense to do some kind of a comfort product round this, as a result of trucking, , white powders round and mixing it and all the things shouldn’t be all that handy. And we began investigating sort of the feasibility round it and I had a suspicion it might both do rather well or identical to die like a airplane right into a mountainside. And to this point it’s carried out rather well. And I feel half of the explanation for that’s when persons are poor in electrolytes particularly sodium, once they repair that they really feel higher actually shortly. I imply, inside 5 or 10 minutes, it’s an evening and day sort of sport changer expertise. So we’ve had a outstanding quantity of buy-in from police, army, hearth, new mothers, keto advocates, prefer it’s been actually broad and really fascinating the range of folks which have been leaping in and giving it a shot and actually seeming to profit from it.

Katie: Yeah, I’m positively a fan, particularly throughout the final couple of years I spend about 45 minutes a day normally within the sauna. And I discover now if I don’t get sufficient sodium I’ve to be very acutely aware of it as a result of that’s fairly a bit of sweat and plus I’m now additionally understanding and so I’ve had to begin actually paying consideration to that, and also you’re proper, it’s superb. Like I’ve had mornings the place I get sort of like a headache and I simply really feel drained after which as quickly as I get my sodium ranges up, I really feel so a lot better with out even needing caffeine as a lot.

Robb: Let me ask you this and I need to do it in a non…I attempt to do it in a non-leading method, do you ever discover totally different instances when LMNT tastes roughly salty?

Katie: Yeah, really. That’s fascinating. I’m ingesting it proper now. I’m ingesting the orange one and it tastes much less salty than it’s going to typically after like a extremely intense sauna or train.

Robb: So it tastes extra salty for you once you sauna or train?

Katie: Mm-hmm. Usually.

Robb: Attention-grabbing, as a result of we’ve had folks report the alternative and so I used to be attempting to determine if this was a method of dialing in dose the place like in case your physique actually wanted sodium, possibly you wouldn’t style it. After which as you began getting sufficient then you definitely wouldn’t style it however I assume you could possibly argue that on the flip aspect of that too, that this was… Sodium is fascinating. It’s the one sort of micro nutrient that we have now a selected taste for. Like, we don’t actually style magnesium or potassium or calcium or something. Like they do have a style however like one chunk of a complete taste repertoire is salty. And so I used to be simply curious if there have been instances the place the identical focus, the identical combine, prefer it would possibly really feel or style significantly salty one second however then, , just about not salty the following.

Katie: That’s actually fascinating. Yeah, I’d be curious to know as you guys hear from extra folks if that finally ends up being the case. What about children and sodium consumption? As a result of I do know you’ve got two daughters and I’ve children as effectively. I do know that LMNT could be a nice various for sports activities drinks. And I positively don’t advocate giving kids conventional sports activities drinks which have all types of dyes and sugars in them. However are there any pointers that we all know of for a way a lot sodium children want, particularly in the event that they’re lively?

Robb: Usually, you simply sort of alter primarily based off of dimension. And so, like Zoey is 7 years outdated and what we’ll do is we’ll take one LMNT, which is 1000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams potassium, 60 milligrams of magnesium, put that in about 2 liters, after which break up it between the 2 of them. After which they may sip on that all through the course of a extremely lively day. Like they’ve been going to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and so they get after it like they’re sizzling and sweaty, and largely simply sort of allow them to self-regulate on that as a result of I’ll ask them, “Hey, would you like water or would you like electrolytes?” And typically they’re like, “Dad, I really need water,” after which different instances are like, “Man, I really need electrolytes?” I simply sort of give them the choice there after which allow them to sort of self-regulate in that method. However we additionally combine issues in a reasonably hypotonic answer. It’s not tremendous concentrated.

Katie: Obtained it. Yeah. And I feel that’s…particularly with children, they appear to be very intuitive for essentially the most half about what they want, particularly once we’re not speaking about drinks which have added sugars which might be going to…the physique’s going to reply to these differently. I really feel like that might sort of skew their response to the sodium in the event that they’re additionally getting sugar and issues which might be in lots of the favored sports activities drinks. However we sort of do the identical with our youngsters and we don’t have…ours don’t do jujitsu anymore however they’re doing pole vaulting. So similar factor, they’re very lively and really sweaty and so they positively inform me once they crave it, which I assumed was fascinating. So

So we’ve talked about low carb and keto diets in relation to sodium consumption. However that is an space that I do know you’ve additionally carried out lots of analysis. And so I’d love to speak somewhat bit about that basically as effectively as a result of these are clearly extremely popular proper now. And there’s a little bit of controversy, particularly for ladies if ladies needs to be on a low carb or keto weight loss plan or not. So I’d love to begin there together with your tackle is the keto or low carb weight loss plan secure for ladies and do we want to adapt it in any method?

Robb: Yeah, it’s fascinating and it’s a extremely controversial subject and I’ve sort of modified my place over time in that I feel there are fewer and fewer folks for whom a low carb weight loss plan isn’t in all probability a good suggestion both transiently via the 12 months or as we become older. And the challenges that normally emerge for ladies particularly with low carb or ketogenic weight loss plan is there’s sort of a camp within the ketogenic group that’s nearly protein phobic. They’re so centered on producing ketones. They get very, very fats centric, and there’s an idea known as the protein leverage speculation that places this concept ahead that if we don’t eat sufficient protein, we’ll proceed to overeat different energy, and it doesn’t matter should you’re low carb otherwise you’re low fats.

And it makes lots of sense and it sort of explains lots of what we see the place some of us do fairly excessive protein and low fats, excessive carb, they do fairly effectively. Of us that do fairly excessive protein, low carb, increased fats, they do fairly effectively. However this center floor of like low protein and plenty of fats and plenty of carbs appears to be an absolute catastrophe. And so, one of the issues that we see occur with ladies is that they may have a tendency to under-eat an excessive amount of, regardless that possibly they’re attempting to lean out. After which they’re additionally actually under-eating protein. And this will trigger stress on the physique, it’s going to trigger folks to overeat. So attempting to get that little bit of caloric deficit turns into actually, actually tough.

After which the opposite piece to that is that the majority of what folks ascribe to like adrenal points, thyroid points round low carb diets, you could possibly additionally make the case that insufficient sodium causes the identical issues. And so, is it a low carb downside or is it an absence of electrolytes whereas being low carb that’s actually the issue? And one of the issues that I sort of default again to is trying on the Ketogains group. These guys have like 150,000, 160,000-person Fb group, actually strong group, but it surely’s about 70% ladies, and their demographic is like 35 to 55.

And these gals are simply crushing it. Like there’s not hundreds of folks with their hair falling out and so they have this downside, and that downside, however they’re excellent at ensuring that protein is on level and that electrolytes are on level. So I do know it’s very anecdotal to level to the Ketogains group and say, “Properly, right here is folks succeeding, , that is validation,” however I feel it sort of speaks to the potential mechanisms of the place the Ketogains of us do a extremely good job getting issues proper after which the place folks can get it mistaken and the way that might negatively affect feminine hormones particularly.

Katie: That is sensible. And talking from my very own expertise, that’s one thing I observed as effectively, these had been essential components to get dialed in. And I wouldn’t say I’m by any means keto all of the time. I cycle all the things. So I do eat carbs however simply not daily. I’m an enormous fan of not doing something each single day. However basically, I’d say I in all probability nonetheless eat a lot decrease carb than most individuals, particularly anybody on the usual American weight loss plan. However I’ve misplaced a considerable quantity of weight within the final 12 months, I feel it’s really shut to 80 kilos now. And for me huge components in that the place I actually had to ramp up protein and be acutely aware of it. In truth, I used to be consuming for a very long time extra protein than I assumed I wanted.

Like I had to actually make an effort to get sufficient energy and get sufficient protein in and in addition the sodium was an enormous key for me, particularly as a result of I used to be utilizing the sauna fairly a bit in the course of the weight reduction. I wasn’t exercising in the course of the weight reduction, however now I’m. And so I discovered it fascinating that with specializing in protein and sodium and being actually cognizant of these once I went again to understanding, I used to be in a position to, as an illustration, deadlift my body weight simply on my first attempt having not labored out for a 12 months. I feel in all probability protein performed an enormous function in that, clearly, as a result of I used to be hopefully not dropping an excessive amount of muscle as I used to be dropping the fats.

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However you’re proper. I feel lots of ladies are actually afraid of protein. Are there any pointers you’ll give of a very good goal of how a lot protein to purpose for?

Robb: Yeah, so the sort of benchmarks are actually by no means beneath 0.Eight grams of protein per pound of lean physique mass. Like until you’re doing one thing for like a selected therapeutic situation like most cancers remedy or one thing like that, like exterior of some actually particular pointers like that, like a 0.Eight grams of protein per pound of lean physique mass, you by no means need to go beneath that. And we have a tendency to see folks do higher at a few gram to 1.2 grams of protein per pound of lean physique mass. And if calculating that finally ends up being sort of onerous. A reasonably easy method to go is to simply attempt to eat a gram of protein per pound of physique weight. And most of the people will fail in that. However within the try of doing it, what they may typically find yourself doing is consuming fewer energy total as a result of that protein is so satiating, they may have a tendency to cut back their total caloric consumption.

Katie: Obtained it. Okay, that is sensible. And, you discuss this and I do know we did a podcast episode rather more about it, I’ll hyperlink to within the present notes about “Wired to Eat”. However you discuss this in your e-book fairly a bit as effectively. And I simply thought that was a extremely fascinating level as a result of I now even throughout weight reduction, ate a lot extra meals than I in all probability was earlier than, that it was not nearly decreasing energy in any respect. It was about ensuring that I used to be actually cognizant of my macros and the place the energy had been coming from. However are you able to go somewhat bit deeper on that and sort of clarify that idea that you just go deep on in “Wired to Eat”?

Robb: Yeah, I imply, “Wired to Eat” was actually an unpacking of sort of two issues. One is the neuroregulation of urge for food and the way it’s our mind that’s actually driving the boat on once we are hungry and when we aren’t. And it’s not only a matter of sticking one thing in our stomach, and that totally different meals have an effect on of us in another way. And that is significantly true on the carbohydrate aspect the place some folks like my spouse, Nikki, she has phenomenal carb tolerance. What’s fascinating is, if Nikki and I sit down and eat, say, like a cup of cooked white rice, her blood sugar will high off about 110 to 115. That’s as excessive because it’ll get. And at two hours, it’s again down to its fasting baseline.

My blood sugar will rise up close to diabetic vary, it’s like 190, 200. I’ll have imaginative and prescient issues, I really feel horrible. After which once I crash after that, I’m simply ravenously hungry. And so what’s fascinating and one thing that’s oftentimes nearly universally missed is that the parents who do effectively on excessive carb diets have blood glucose responses that appear to be the remainder of us on low carb diets. It’s not that they’re magically immune to like actually large blood sugar highs and lows, it’s that their physique is so environment friendly at coping with issues they by no means expertise these highs and lows.

And Nikki is fascinating in that she is going to go out and in of ketosis. She doesn’t really feel higher or worse, by some means, whether or not she’s consuming carbs or not, whereas I discover a extremely, actually important distinction being decrease carb. And so what that tells me is Nikki is probably going rather more metabolically versatile than I’m. There’s issues that I can do like somewhat bit of fasting, lifting weights, and carb biking to attempt to enhance that however there’s simply sort of a actuality that both genetically or epigenetically Nikki is way, much better than I’m at coping with carbs. And so these are sort of the 2 interwoven options that we actually discover in Wired to Eat and use to assist inform selections.

Like what are the meals that we’re selecting that for us trigger the most effective satiety, the most effective skill to eat on the stage that’s mandatory for us? After which, , what’s our particular person response to meals each with regards to glycemic load after which additionally doubtlessly immunogenic meals? I don’t do effectively with wheat or gluten in any respect. It crushes me fairly badly. And a few folks don’t do effectively with Nightshade. Some folks don’t do effectively with eggs. And so we perform a little exploration each on the glycemic response, the blood sugar response, however then additionally sort of the immunogenic response, the potential sort of meals intolerances and allergenic kind responses that people have to varied meals.

Katie: Yeah, I feel there positively have to be a genetic element to that. So that you talked about a couple of issues you are able to do that hopefully assist enhance your glycemic response. So I hear from a quantity of individuals who eat what could be really a comparatively low carb weight loss plan and nonetheless can have a better than they’d like fasting glucose within the morning. Are these issues doubtlessly useful for folks like that?

Robb: So in that situation, there’s this factor known as the daybreak phenomenon, which within the morning, we have now elevated cortisol ranges and cortisol will have a tendency to elevate blood glucose ranges. What’s essential to have a look at in that situation is the hemoglobin A1C. A1C is a measure of the common blood glucose over time, not simply that singular snapshot. And most of the time, what we discover is that the parents who’ve that, they’re consuming low carb, they’ve what seems to be elevated blood glucose within the morning, however that’s the one time of the day that their blood glucose is elevated if their A1C is low. If each fasting blood glucose is elevated and A1C is elevated, then we have now one other downside and never sometimes it might be that they don’t have electrolytes on level, which could be a stress that produces cortisol, that elevates blood glucose ranges.

Is also an immunogenic meals. Like in the event that they’re consuming low carb cheese and dairy are actually scrumptious, actually useful on low carb, however they’re additionally actually widespread allergens and people can expertise elevated blood glucose once they get sort of an immune response to meals. However the factor to do is to examine that A1C and you may go to your physician, or you could possibly get that from like a neighborhood pharmacy to examine your A1C. It’s only a finger prick take a look at in that case. And if the A1C appears good, not likely one thing to fear about. If the A1C is on the upper aspect, which something above 5 begins getting me somewhat bit involved. I’d like to see it at 5 or beneath on the A1C, then we are able to have a look at sodium, we might have a look at are you under-eating? Do we have now an immunogenic meals? Is there a sleep disturbance happening that’s inflicting this different downside?

Katie: Okay, acquired it. That is sensible. And I need to loop again simply to the sodium factor and speak somewhat bit extra about LMNT the place folks can discover it. In fact, the hyperlinks can be within the present notes. However it’s made an enormous distinction for me. And it’s a lot simpler than, such as you stated, attempting to combine your individual or carry the components for that. And my children just like the style of the flavored ones as effectively, which is one other plus. However only for anybody who’s listening, tell us the place we are able to discover it. And of course, the hyperlinks can be within the present notes at wellnessmama.fm as effectively.

Robb: Yeah, yeah. DrinkLMNT.com is the place the primary web site is and we have now an ideal science and useful resource part there. So like if you would like to dig into some of the science and analysis that sort of helps what we’re suggesting, then we have now some nice sources there. After which I feel all of the social media stuff. It’s, , @DrinkLMNT on Twitter and Instagram and Fb and all that stuff.

Katie: Obtained it. Superior. Properly, Robb, that is actually enjoyable spherical two. We might need to do a spherical three at some point. It’s all the time such a pleasure to speak to you. However thanks for all of the work that you just’re doing on this space and for sharing right now.

Robb: Identical Katie. I look ahead to seeing you in actual life. Hopefully we each dodge the coronavirus and we are able to see one another quickly.

Katie: Sure, completely. And please inform your loved ones hello for me.

Robb: Will do. Take care.

Katie: Thanks. And thanks to all of you for listening as all the time and for sharing one of your most precious property, your time with us right now. We’re each so grateful that you just did and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the following episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

When you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to go away a score or evaluation on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to discover the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may benefit from the data. I actually admire your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.